Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Debate rages on...

We've had some pretty interesting comments posted recently, in regards to Dean Barkley's US Senate run.

A commenter, Blue J (Sue R) has taken Barkley to task, calling him a panderer and an "unserious candidate"

Remember...there is only one candidate in this race that has been closing his campaign TV and radio ads by telling us he's "serious".

Taking one of your high school teachers and putting her in an that not pandering?

Here are a sample of the responses...

From Tax Paying Liberal
Blue Jay,

I find it strange that you would call any Democrat running in this state “progressive”. Can you name one thing Al has done for the people of Minnesota before he decided to run? You may bash Barkley but try putting up Franken’s resume up against Deans.

Al host’s an event in St. Cloud for vets and only one person shows up. I guess sd15 and 14 really came through for him. It must be Barkley’s fault. Door knocks are being held all over the 6th for Tinklenberg and Al is left off the lit drops and voter id questions. Blame Barkley. Do you see a lot of house candidates tying themselves to Franken? Name one up here in the 6th. But of course you know all of this. It will be nice to have Dean to blame after this election.

As usual the Democrats will blame their loss on the fact that there are too many people in the race.

You assume that all the votes an IP candidate gets come from people who would otherwise vote for the Democratic. This isn’t based on any kind of data. But you do know that republicans have core values and the Democrats don’t.

If the Democrats the last 2 years had fulfilled their campaign pledges and done something on health care, Iraq, Presidential power, energy and the rest then maybe people would not be holding their noses and Al would get more than one person to show up at an event.

The Democrats were delighted with Dean when he worked to get El crossed endorsed.

Maybe the democrats lose because they keep trying to look like Republicans. Maybe the lack of progress on the key issues the last few years just shows that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans.

People get tired of vanilla after a while.

Barkley not mucking it up for the progressive candidate. That job is being done by the do nothing congress that votes with Bush every time. You can thank the “blue dogs” for that. Oh, I forgot that the Blue dog is main man in the 6th. I guess it’s ok to call Al a progressive but remember that Tinklenberg is a conservative. No wonder the Dems are confused.

Your progressive heroes like Amy votes against a filibuster on FISA so she gives Bush and company cover against crimes they committed. Then she votes against FISA knowing that it will pass, once again thats to the Blue Dogs. She votes for every Iraq war funding bill. In fact she sides with Norm all the time.

If you want to keep things the same as they are, Vote for Norm or Al or El or Michelle, There’s no real difference.

But if you lose don’t blame it on to much democracy. Look in the mirror and ask what choices the 2 parties really offered.

Blue J responds:
TP Liberal:

I don’t live in an absolute world. I deeply appreciated Congressman David Minge, not just because he was and is a decent human being, but because he carried progressive values to Washington from a very conservative district. As a fiscal conservative, he was one of the first Blue Dogs. He did not always vote as liberally as I would like personally, but overall he kept us moving in the right (left) direction.

Your premise is that Franken and Coleman, and Tinklenberg and Bachmann, do not offer us a choice. That’s baloney and you know it.

In 1992 Ross Perot saved us from a second Bush term. Third party runs can cut both ways.

In Barkley’s case, I am not sure he will hurt one candidate more than the other. He is a vanity candidate, that is all. His recent stunt about paychecks just makes my point. He’s pandering.

Barkley a vanity candidate? This sounds like the rhetoric of a DFL party officer here. Franken has been pandering for more than a year now, get off your high horse.

Tax Paying Liberal goes at it again!
Blue Jay,

We have different versions of what a vanity candidate is.

I’ll ask you again what has Al done before he decided to run that shows any kind of public service or qualifications to be a U.S. Senator?

I like Al but for his supporter to call Barkley a vanity candidate is a lot like the pot and kettle thing.

Is his vacation attack any less informative than the bowling wars? Or having your grade school teacher do an ad for you?

It is good humor to hear that Barkley is pandering when you can easily look at the FEC reports from Norm, Al, El and Bachmann. Who’s pandering? Let’s hear Al or El say a bad word about any union or Norm say a bad word about Exxon. Tell me they don’t pander to the base.

If we don’t start taking a good hard look at ourselves then we will continue to keep repeating the same mistakes.

We live in an area that the Democratic Party has decided can’t be won. So we are told that the only people we should endorse are those who share the same values as the other party.

Someone has to step in and fill the gap and the IP may be our best hope for a real choice.

You can tell its election year when you see the Democrats dressed in hunting gear talking about guns and Republicans petting small furry animals pretending they care about the environment.

If the debate continues to rage on in the comments section, I may be inclined to frontpage this stuff because...well, it's good stuff!

Clearly some Democrats are getting testy that Barkley has joined the US Senate race. Attacking Barkley as unserious or as a panderer is strange rhetoric. No one has answered the question of what has Al Franken done for Minnesota? Besides having a radio show and going on some great USO tours, Franken has done nothing.

His past will haunt him...just ask the people out door knocking now!


taxpaying liberal said...

I need to point out that Blue jay is one of my favorite people. She is a great person and a real activist and I respect her opinion a great deal.

She works hard every day to make life better for all of us.
I just disagreed with her on this issue and it’s rare that I find myself at odds with her.

I have the upmost of respect for her and the work she does.

blueJ said...

Hal, you're sounding a bit testy yourself.

Election Day is not some theoretical exercise for me. When I was 24 I threw away my vote on a third-party candidate because I couldn’t see the bigger picture. Since then I’ve come to view my vote as an investment – and I want to put it where it will do the most good.

Right now, in the 2008 Minnesota Senate race, it’s votes that matter, and if re-elected, Coleman will continue to vote on whichever side his bread is buttered on - mostly with the oil, drug, and the financial industries. If you agree with Coleman -- to stay until we “win” in Iraq, to let big business have the upper hand when it comes to union organizing, and to obstruct single-payer health care -- then by all means vote for Barkley, because that will be the result.

Barkley knows this - but he doesn’t care. That’s what makes him a vanity candidate. The limelight has dazzled him.

blueJ said...


I'm nuts about Ashwin Madia, and was an early supporter. If we run into each other on the trail, we can talk about CD3.

taxpaying liberal said...

I’m sorry if you feel that voting for your conscience and beliefs is throwing your vote away.

That’s the problem with the system. PACS and special interest groups give money based on electability. Voters have to choose between 2 people both of whom are bought and paid for.

I’m fifty years old and for too many elections I’ve been voting for the guy my party told me to instead of the person I agreed most with.

I also thought the only qualified candidates were those that raised the most money. The Party Platforms mean nothing. It’s all down to who you can get to come to the $1000 a plate dinners. Who’s got the best fund raising list.

40% of the country identifies itself as independent. It is the fastest growing demographic group in the country.

Elwyn and Steve Sarvi both sought the independence Party endorsement and went to its convention and addressed its delegates. Ask them if they think voting IP is throwing away your vote.

So my choices are voting for Al who will lose anyway but my vote may decrease the landslide for Norm. If you think this is not true try going on a joint Congressional, Senate door knock or fund raising party.

Or I can vote for Norm because that the surest way not to “throw away my vote”.

Or I can vote for Barkley, Who I find myself in agreement on in areas like health care, Iraq, Drug policy, energy, choice,education, public finance of elections and instant run off balloting.

I also think that you Blue Jay will find his stances closer to yours.

What more important is that if he cracks 20% he has a real chance of pulling this off.

What do you think? Are 10% of the Republicans mad at Norm because he is a RINO and votes for uncontrolled spending?

Are 10% of the Democrats unhappy with Al? You know they are.

It’s up to us. Will we keep following the parties like sheep and hope for the best or will we start taking our country back from the special interest groups that have bought all of these elections?

Blue man said...

None of us want Coleman in office. Sorry you think you wasted your votes in the votes for Ventura and Penny in the past were not wasted votes. The candidates earned my vote, by standing for what I believe in and making a strong case.

While Franken can make a good case, his significant baggage shows irresponsibility, in my eyes.

You doorknock all over the area as well BJ. Are you not feeling an anti-Franken presence?

A lot of other good DFL places are feeling this as well. I'm not the only one reporting on this. Why do you think some local candidates have taken Franken signs out of their parade groups?

It's 180 degrees different than 06. Koobuchar had strong coattails. Franken will hurt local candidates.